Carl Johan Calleman, if there is somebody inspiring in the world of macrocosmic quantum theory, that's you because you actually coined what that is. So welcome to the World Happiness Week and this World Happiness Fest. And as you know, we want to understand the opportunities and possibilities for world happiness from so many different angles, and what you've been doing over the last few years is just remarkable. So thank you so much, Carl, for being part of the Week. Carl Johan Calleman: Thank you so much, Luis, to you too. I think this whole initiative of the World Happiness Foundation and setting that as one of the major directions for the work of humanity is really by itself quite revolutionary and a very valuable contribution to what we need to know and do at the current time.
Quantum theory, pretty much everyone has heard about it, at least anyone who is interested in novel thinking of all kinds, but a quantum theory in its traditional form, which is microcosmic quantum theory is now about a hundred years old. And for a long time, this was just a very fascinating subject for physicists and chemists, and people in the hard sciences. Especially, I would say that the atom model created by Niels Bohr in 1913 with the whole idea that there are such things as quantum leaps when it comes to the orbits of electrons revolving around the nucleus of an atom. That whole concept is really a little bit of a miracle. It's something that we really can't grasp from our everyday experience of how reality works. In other words, there is a shift ... Oh, sorry. There is a shift, an instantaneous shift between the energy levels of electrons that takes place under certain conditions inside the electron.
Now, since that time, since the initial pioneers worked with microcosmic quantum theory, it's broadened its appeal to people much far outside of the actual hard sciences where it was developed. And particularly in the past 20 years, there's been a lot of focus on it among people that are interested in spirituality and consciousness. And the reason is that there is, I think, a feeling that there is some kind of an underlying field to the reality that is provided by quantum theory and that that underlying field is somehow connected to human spirituality and to the divine as such.
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Luis Gallardo:
Carl Johan Calleman, if there is somebody inspiring in the world of macrocosmic quantum theory, that's you because you actually coined what that is. So welcome to the World Happiness Week and this World Happiness Fest. And as you know, we want to understand the opportunities and possibilities for world happiness from so many different angles, and what you've been doing for the last few years is just remarkable. So thank you so much, Carl, for being part of the Week.
Carl Johan Calleman:
Thank you so much, Luis, to you too. I think this whole initiative of the World Happiness Foundation and setting that as one of the major directions for the work of humanity is really by itself quite revolutionary and a very valuable contribution to what we need to know and do at the current time.
Luis Gallardo:
So thank you so much. Coming from you, from somebody who understands quantum leaps, is very, very important. So why don't we go deeper into what macrocosmic quantum theory is and what does it bring to the world today?
Carl Johan Calleman:
Yeah. So quantum theory, pretty much everyone has heard about it, at least anyone who is interested in novel thinking of all kinds, but a quantum theory in its traditional form, which is microcosmic quantum theory is now about a hundred years old. And for a long time, this was just a very fascinating subject for physicists and chemists, and people in the hard sciences. Especially, I would say that the atom model created by Niels Bohr in 1913 with the whole idea that there are such things as quantum leaps when it comes to the orbits of electrons revolving around the nucleus of an atom. That whole concept is really a little bit of a miracle. It's something that we really can't grasp from our everyday experience of how reality works. In other words, there is a shift ... Oh, sorry. There is a shift, an instantaneous shift between the energy levels of electrons that takes place under certain conditions inside the electron.
Carl Johan Calleman:
Now, since that time, since the initial pioneers worked with microcosmic quantum theory, it's broadened its appeal to people much far outside of the actual hard sciences where it was developed. And particularly in the past 20 years, there's been a lot of focus on it among people that are interested in spirituality and consciousness. And the reason is that there is, I think, a feeling that there is some kind of an underlying field to the reality that is provided by quantum theory and that that underlying field is somehow connected to human spirituality and to the divine as such.
Carl Johan Calleman:
But the thing, I'm a doctor of physical biology so I have a background and have been teaching quantum theory on this microcosmic level for a few years, and what I have come to conclude from my scientific viewpoint is that what happens on a subatomic level really doesn't cover or provide any answers to the kind of questions that people are asking when it comes to the large scale evolution of consciousness in the universe.
Carl Johan Calleman:
In other words, whatever happens on the microcosmic quantum level is not really relevant to our own evolution and our own place in the world. It's not really relevant to the evolution of biological species. It's not really relevant to the evolution of human history and its very many different aspects.
Carl Johan Calleman:
And so based on this and based on these insights of you might say that the microcosmic quantum theory doesn't cover a theory for the evolution of the universe, I have developed something called macrocosmic quantum theory. Inspiration to this really came from the calendar system of the ancient Maya. And not only from them, I should say. Many of the concepts that we find from the Maya were shared in ancient times by many, many different civilizations, but there is still something special about the Maya in this regard. You can go to, say, India or Egypt, and you will find that they talked about cosmic serpents as major creation factors.
Carl Johan Calleman:
The thing though is that the Maya, in contrast to all other ancient civilizations, developed a calendar system of the evolutional consciousness. And the calendar means that you have numbers, and once you have numbers, you really have an inroad to modern science. You will then have the possibility of seeing if your hypothesis actually matches not only your hypothesis but the ancient Mayan calendrical system, whether it actually matches the evolution of history as we know it.
Carl Johan Calleman:
And so that's the reason that I think the Maya are very, very special because they give us a means of connecting our understanding of the universe and all the modern database for how it has evolved and connecting that with the ancient ideas of an evolving consciousness that typically was symbolized by the plumed serpent or serpents or dragons and these movements of invisible forces.
Carl Johan Calleman:
And so that is, in short, the background to developing the macrocosmic quantum theory. But the whole idea from the Maya that we get is that evolution of consciousness; meaning, everything that happens in the universe ultimately is a product of the evolution of consciousness. And that proceeds, as we can see on this diagram in a stepwise fashion, that's the reason that they built their pyramids as terraces. So here you can see if you climb this pyramid that you can see, you're actually climbing nine different levels of evolution, nine different waves, each of which provides a particular state of consciousness to the human mind.
Carl Johan Calleman:
And so what you see here to the right is, only for the five highest waves, you see the corresponding states of consciousness, and each one of them then has a particular geometry. You can see there are crosses there that define a particular geometry, but you might also see them as filters that determine what aspects of reality will you be able to perceive? How will you perceive it? How will you express it? How will you recreate it and so forth? So because of this, people in different eras under the influence of different waves have created what you might say different worlds, different world ages.
Carl Johan Calleman:
And I would say this has nothing to do, the world age has nothing to do with astrology. It's about the evolution of consciousness and not about the physical planets or something like that. Quantum theory is not about physics in the Newtonian sense of the word. Quantum theory is about the underlying field.
Carl Johan Calleman:
And then you can also see to the right there that each of these waves, each of which creates a particular state of consciousness is activated at specific points in time. And that is then really what determines the fact that we have a history that we're not just standing in the same place all the time, but as new states of consciousness like this have been activated in the cosmos and made accessible to human beings, we have changed and evolved. And this is a long, long story presented in seven books of mine, and this is not the time to go into any kind of detail about it.
Carl Johan Calleman:
But what I do want you to see in this particular slide is the fact that if you look at these five highest levels of consciousness, there is an overall pattern. The pattern is from unity in the light that you can see in the fifth wave. Through separation, through a sequence of different filters provided by the sixth and seventh and the eighth wave, it's a return then to the ninth wave state of consciousness in the light, unified consciousness in the light.
Carl Johan Calleman:
And so in this sense, unlike what many people might have heard, the Mayan calendar system provides an overall direction for the evolution of humanity. It tells us what states of consciousness are accessible to us. And then to some extent or to a large extent actually, it's up to us to develop the means in order to access this different consciousness. And to me, the only thing that makes sense is to see this as a climb of a cosmic evolution scheme ultimately leading to the return of that state of unity on a higher level.
Luis Gallardo:
So in this case, if we focus on consciousness, can you define what consciousness is for you, and what is the state of human consciousness today with respect to what it was a few hundred years ago and with respect to what it's going to be in a couple of hundred years from now?
Carl Johan Calleman:
Yeah. Well, to me, consciousness just means something like subjective experience or the ability to have a subjective experience, which means, in other words, without consciousness, we would not exist as living beings really. So it's almost synonymous with life consciousness and life. But this ability to have this subjective experience that makes us feel that there is somebody in there, so to speak, in us, so to speak, can take different forms.
Carl Johan Calleman:
I think the universe begins with consciousness really and then it develops the material universe around itself. Consciousness is primary to matter. And as it does that, it also develops us into human beings eventually with a more and more sophisticated ability to experience difference through our senses, etc., but it's not a single straight one consciousness. As this picture shows, there are several different states of consciousness, and each one of them means that we have different kinds of subjective experiences.
Carl Johan Calleman:
And where we are now I would say is that especially then after March 9th, 2011, is that all of these nine levels of consciousness are accessible. They have all been activated in the cosmos and become accessible to us human beings, but it's not just then to say, okay, then we know that this or that will happen. No. It's a little bit different like that because first of all, human beings need to access these states of consciousness. And at the current time, all of these states of consciousness are in principle running in parallel and accessible, and we need to cultivate these states of consciousness. We need to develop the methods, you might say, and the intentions. I would say if we want to follow the cosmic plan, we need to do it in such a way that we actually access the highest level, the ninth wave there where there are no filters, where we do not project separation either to others or to ourselves.
Carl Johan Calleman:
And it's not exactly because there is a human choice involved in how we relate to these different states, it's not just predictable exactly how, at least from this point in time, how things will turn out. It will depend so much. All I can say is that the purpose as far as I can understand it of this whole creation is for humanity to aim for that unity state. And it's a happy state in the sense that it's not creating separation. And it's a happy state in the sense that it doesn't mean that you project dualities on other people and project bad, good, etc. It's an accepting state because it is the light that comes through without any kind of filter.
Carl Johan Calleman:
But at this point, I'm not going into saying this or that will happen. There is also, as we talked about before this interview, there is also a certain timing of how these different waves will play out. And so you can say that the accessibilities of states will be altered. The possibilities will be different in the times ahead. And as a very rough statement, I would say that there is still quite some tough times up until the year 2031 where I think there will be new possibilities, especially in the seventh wave in order to return to sane and sound globality. Globality has got a bad reputation because people think that it's somebody who dominates everybody else. That's not what I mean. My globality is respect for all traditions, all nations, and a willingness for all of them to merge in the sense and collaborate and so forth. And that possibility will increase in 2031.
Carl Johan Calleman:
I would also say that there will be the possibility of a sound return to democracy that has suffered, I think, in the past couple of years. But will this happen is another question. It really is like quantum theory and the possibilities of doing these quantum leaps. Quantum theory is really about possibilities and probabilities, you might say. It is not deterministic. And that's true, there are many parallels if you look at the macrocosmic quantum theory and microcosmic quantum theory, and one of these parallels is the fact that it's not deterministic. It just talks about different potentialities. And that's where we come in with human beings.
Luis Gallardo:
Well, this is so helpful. I'm a big follower and fan of David Bohm with infinite potential, so I think that you are very much linking this. And I would love to ask you a bit more about the elements of this macrocosmic quantum theory because basically, what I see here is that these waves are coming from somewhere. And reading your books, that's coming from the heart of the universe or the center of creation. Those waves are, from a symbolic point of view, is a serpent, the plumed serpent that the Mayans were talking about.
Luis Gallardo:
So basically, you are talking about the heart of creation, which is the tree of life. You are talking about the serpent, which is the waves. And then you incorporate another very important element, which is the duality, and the concept of gene and germ, and the concept of separation in many ways before the union. And something that we are learning a lot from many researchers and experts in non-duality is that we are getting into an opportunity to get into non-duality when we understand how to get there.
Luis Gallardo:
So can you please go further and a bit deeper into the key elements of this theory and then what do we do with that information? Because something that you say is that our brain, in this case, is the receptor of all these waves coming. So I think that you incorporate really important elements that can give us a new perspective, actually what you call a new theory of biology and how humans are progressing in the world. So can we go a bit deeper about the elements, these elements?
Carl Johan Calleman:
Yes. So these are very big questions. I have developed the answers that I'm giving to them in a number of books, especially in the Quantum Science of Psychedelics, which is not only about psychedelics. That has maybe one-third of psychedelics, but it really provides a model of the mind from which we can really understand how psychedelics work, but it's also in the previous, the nine waves of creation.
Carl Johan Calleman:
We have this concept from ancient times, like the tree of life as you mentioned, and to the Maya, sometimes that would be called the place of creation or it would be called the heart of the heavens or something like that. And then we have the serpent, which is, both the tree of life and the serpents are ubiquitous concepts. You're hard-pressed to find any culture on our planet from ancient times that did not have these as central components of their cosmologies.
Carl Johan Calleman:
And then if you go to the average person in the modern world have no clue about this, and so either you have to say that the ancients, they were just superstitious idiots, they didn't know anything, or the truth is there is something we don't see. And that's what I believe. There is something we have not wanted to see for whatever reason. And we need, in order to see this, we need to translate the ancient concepts into a little bit more modern language. And that's where quantum theory comes in where you can, for instance, what I'm showing here is a picture from Dr. Singhal, who made a very interesting study of the entire cosmos and the number of quasars, which are huge radiation sources on a large distance from ourselves.
Carl Johan Calleman:
And who found that if there is a line, if you put a line on something that's called the preferred axis in cosmology, an axis that encompasses the entire universe as we know it, then you found that there is a major significant difference in the numbers of these on the one side of the universe compared to the other side of the universe.
Carl Johan Calleman:
And so there is what I would say an actual basis for the idea of yang and yin, an expansive hemisphere of the universe and a more stable form of the hemisphere of the universe as we can say. And yin and yang then would get an explanation, especially if you look upon the yin and yang as being transferred step by step, trickled down from this huge cosmic level that I just showed you through the galaxy down to the hemisphere down to the planet and down ultimately to ourselves who are the receivers of this particular kind of polarity. And then by receiving through that reception, our perceptional reality will change. Yin and yang is critical thing for all creativity. Unless there was that kind of a distinction between the two hemispheres, everything would just be an amorphous mixture of nothingness basically. But because of that duality, there are things we have a reality around us of all kinds of things, you might say.
Carl Johan Calleman:
Now, this axis that was just recently, in 2004, I call that recently here, discovered by modern science through the satellites they've sent out to measure the cosmic microwave background radiation. If you just say that, hey, this is not just an axis. This is the tree of life. Then things start to make sense. It's just you just make that choice. You say this is what the ancients talked about. This axis separates the hemispheres not only of the universe as such but of the galaxy, of the planet, and of ourselves, then we will start to see how all of this universe has been created.
Carl Johan Calleman:
And part of that is also then to look at the phenomenon of serpents. So serpents exist in all kinds of traditions, and these are just examples of them. But as the biblical story tells us, which I do believe is a little bit a politicized story, but still, the truth is that the serpents are related to the tree of life. In many, many traditions, there are stories where trees of life and serpents are connected. And the serpents are simply sign waves, these waves that the tree of life is sending out and that we are receiving. And as we receive those, then we will also then have a change of mind, you might say.
Carl Johan Calleman:
And what all this leads up to is that the mind, for instance, is not created by our brains, which is one of the big misconceptions of modern science. Our minds are downloaded by our brains. And only as these waves called serpents by the ancients, what else could they call them, I should say? Only as they are downloaded to the brain will we have a mind. So it's interesting, what should I say, synergy, you might say, between these waves and our brains that creates our minds. And then once you see that, you will also see the possibility of an evolution of consciousness because our brains have the ability to download or, if you like, resonate with these different states of consciousness brought by the serpents.
Luis Gallardo:
Well, when we look at the space of transformational technologies, right now, technology is going so fast that we have seen already sensors, we have already seen wearables, and we've seen technology that is accelerating the access to all this reception of waves. Because if the brain is downloading, the more open we can be to that download, the easier it will be to elevate our consciousness. This is the way I understand it. So technology at some point is really going to allow every human being to download as much as they can. So is this right and what is the limit to download consciousness?
Carl Johan Calleman:
Yeah. I don't know what the limit is, except that I think unity, a non-filtered state of consciousness that is the ultimate, regardless of any technology. I tend to believe that is the ultimate. And I think that's just what I want to respond to that.
Luis Gallardo:
Okay, because when we talk about technology, we talk about not just technical things but we talk about meditation. So right now, meditation is becoming mainstream and people start to know how to do that, or we do drumming. We show in shamans, they use music, dancing, drumming. We see now that psychedelics are being legalized in at least for some research after all that happened in the '60s and '70s. So I think I call that technology as well, is the opportunity for us to use tools that are going to be helping us to expand the opportunity to get that consciousness.
Carl Johan Calleman:
Okay. Now I understand you better because I immediately thought about all the digital world and so forth when I heard you say technology, but then yes, absolutely. As you're saying, there's been these tools, you might say, that have aided our access to, especially then the ninth wave, the unity consciousness, and that includes this whole range of what would you call these technologies? Psychospiritual technologies maybe. That would be like meditation, like yoga, like breath work, like psychedelics. And they're all really modalities, I think, of techniques that could help you to disengage the kind of dualist mind that was created by especially then one of these waves, the sixth wave. That was really what gave people the structured mind and allowed us to create civilizations with a particular mindset and so forth.
Carl Johan Calleman:
I would say there are good sites to civilization. There certainly have been good sites to civilizations, but there also have been negative sites because that kind of a mindset that created the civilization has been very much dualistic, has been very much based on separating the rulers and the ruled, the good and the bad, the so-called good and the so-called bad and really making separate human beings.
Carl Johan Calleman:
Now, so if it's possible to disengage that kind of duality at the level where we have now climbed to on the cosmic pyramid if you like if it's possible to disengage that, then those techniques, the ones that we just mentioned, the psychedelics, the meditations, the yogas, the breathwork and a couple of other things like that, like drumming or more connected to the earth and so forth, but still that would facilitate. It wouldn't immediately give us access to the ninth wave or that unity state of consciousness, but it would facilitate our climb to that level, and that is an important aspect of our own time that these phenomena have become so much mainstream, some of them at least, that people are in principle have many other tools required for this ultimate quantum leap.
Luis Gallardo:
I have a follow-up question, probably the last question about one topic that we haven't talked about yet, but I feel is a byproduct of some of the waves. I would love to understand a bit more is the concept of ego and the concept of ego related to duality. Because at some point, when you talk about this ninth wave and the concept of unity, it has a lot to do with the concept of ego. Can you explain a bit more, where is the ego coming from and what is the role of this ego in human evolution?
Carl Johan Calleman:
Yeah. Okay. Let's see. Am I so lucky that I have one of the pictures for that? No, it doesn't seem I'm that lucky. So anyway, first of all, what is not the ego? The ego is not a part of our brain or some function that is a natural constituent of our brains. It is something that has developed over time, and it is something that has developed as a function of these different waves. So for instance, one of the interesting things that you can understand by following how humans have looked upon themselves over time, over the past hundred thousand years, is that the initial forms of art that we know humans have produced like the cave paintings in Spain and France, they don't draw a lot of humans. In fact, you'll have to look for humans anywhere.
Carl Johan Calleman:
And then from 10,000 years on, you're starting to see human beings portrayed on cliff sides and so forth, but they're not very personalized, individualized. They certainly don't look like rulers or anything like that. But you're starting to see humans are starting to develop some kind of self-awareness. And then comes the sixth wave activation that took place in 3,200 BC and led to the creation of civilizations, typically ruled by some kind of a pharaoh or king or something like that. And then a process starts where the human individual and then in particular, certain wants are developing a personality trait, I would say, that is a function of this duality, this separation between rulers and ruled.
Carl Johan Calleman:
And so the wave at that time allowed human being means to create a dominant aspect of themselves, and that ultimately led to a specific function of the mind created by these waves that created people that have big egos, dominant aspects. You can discuss that, you can point out that in the kind of world people have been living in the past 5,000 years, there has been some kind of a value to having that aspect of your mind. But on the other hand, on the large scale of things, certainly at this point, it is not a very good thing for humanity at large. If anything, where we need to go is to jointly access the ninth wave in such a way that we find that we actually have the ability to tune in to the very same unity consciousness. All of us really, and not just I do my own thing as we mostly do at the current time, and that's really the great danger.
Carl Johan Calleman:
And thinking about this happytalism that you're calling about, we've had this idea that I'll be happy on my own. I know I will find that wave myself, how to create happiness for myself. And that is not a constructive point of departure at our current time. We will have to seek to develop such happytalism together, which you can't just slay the ego as the ancient Eastern traditions would say, but we can develop the higher levels of consciousness in such a way that the ego gets an increasingly less power over ourselves.
Luis Gallardo:
Well, I think that Dr. Calleman, we could be talking for days. It's amazing. All your books bring another level of insight and are very practical at the same time. So I think that your contribution to human progress is just incredible. So I want to say thank you very much because what you are doing is remarkable, and I appreciate very much that you can share this with all of us. Do you have a final recommendation for people who want to navigate in the right way the ninth wave and all the others? Because we have nine waves actually working at the same time right now for the first time in human history, right?
Carl Johan Calleman:
Yeah. Well, thank you very much for having me. It's been a pleasure. There is something profoundly inspiring by the kind of project that you are working with. Maybe the ultimate goal or direction for ourselves and the current time is really happiness and not unity or anything like that. But unity will be a necessary component in order to forge that happiness that everyone is aspiring to at the current time. I think I really covered what I wanted to say in those final remarks.
Carl Johan Calleman:
I do want to just continue a little bit maybe and strengthen my point when it comes to this issue of the ego and so forth. In other words, if you look, and I will allow myself to show another, to come back to ... Where do we have it? Oh, there we go. So just to look to the right there, or maybe you're not seeing ... Let's see. Are you sharing? I'm not sharing, right? Sorry.
Luis Gallardo:
No, you stopped sharing. You have to share again.
Carl Johan Calleman:
Yeah. I have to share the screen. Okay. So here we go again with this. So where we are now. And it's a lot of history as you can see. This goes back ... The five levels here go back a hundred thousand years, and then it covers the historical evolution of humanity, the 5,000 years, and then a couple of others.
Carl Johan Calleman:
Now, the eighth wave was activated only in 1999 so a lot of people have lived through that. And the most obvious expression of it is the digitalization of the world and the new world created by that. Then the ninth wave was much more recently activated in 2011.
Carl Johan Calleman:
What I do want to say here is there is a risk, you might say, by this eighth wave. As you can see, you might say, yes, it's created an interesting world of digital phenomena. It's actually helped the right brain half come forth, meaning meditation, psychedelics, breath work, and all that kind of thing. It certainly has helped that strength in the right brain half. It certainly has strengthened the roles of women in the world and so forth. So it does provide for some background to the potential quantum leap, to the unit, the ninth wave, but it does also create almost like a seductive individualism. The very fact that it's a dualist wave makes people, simply makes them separate, and we can easily see that through the digital world that it creates a lot of separation, especially at the current time.
Carl Johan Calleman:
So I do want to emphasize here that nobody gets to the ninth wave without doing a quantum leap. You have to go into some different state of functioning, and that way of functioning is not just about my individual development into some kind of a spiritual master or whatever it is that some people are aspiring to. Knowing the quantum leap to the ninth wave, it requires that you, first of all, the intention to harmonize yourself truly and very directly with this particular cosmic influence and do that jointly with other people, not just, oh, it's my development. No, it's not my development. This is for all. And it has to be not a surrendering ... Sorry. Not a surrendering.
Carl Johan Calleman:
It has to be done by surrendering to this field, not surrendering to some powerful individual or guru or whatever. It is surrendering to a cosmic non-human but divine field. And if we can do that jointly, then we will be part of the final quantum leap that might restore happiness to humanity.
Luis Gallardo:
Wow. Yeah. I couldn't agree more, and I feel it, and I think that as you know, today, we are going through the biggest pandemic of loneliness in the world. We know that. And we know about these three levels of separation; separation with self, separation with communities, separation with nature and beyond. So I feel that your message is very, very important. And I would say that actually what we are doing with this festival, with the foundation and everything is to join forces because we know that collective trauma requires collective healing. So I think that your theory really reinforces that we have to go into collective healing.
Carl Johan Calleman:
Yeah.
Luis Gallardo:
So thank you so much, Professor, Dr. Calleman. It's a pleasure.
Carl Johan Calleman:
Thank you.
Luis Gallardo:
We'll keep the conversation going forward with many more things, I'm sure. Thank you so much for joining us.
Carl Johan Calleman:
Thank you. Thank you, Luis. My pleasure.