Mo Gawdat and Dorota Stanczyk talk with Luis Gallardo about Self-Love, Acceptance, and (Re) Connection. You just have you, your contemplation, your spiritual practice. And in those places, you start to develop a higher level of mindfulness, higher level of presence, which in, let's call them the Olympic champions of the sport. But if you just want to be a normal engaged human, stop the distraction, and when you stop the distraction, you'll be okay, you'll be present.
I would say the first step to reconnect with either ourselves, or nature, or anyone, is to create a space for it, to create time for it. And that means that even if you have a conversation with someone, don't be somewhere else in your mind, because actually when you are somewhere else when your mind is preoccupied, you are not present. And you actually don't even remember that moment happening, because you wonder, right. So I believe that the first step to well-being in general, to really feeling happier, to really feeling reconnected is to cultivate and to learn to be present. And that's not as easy as it sounds because it requires to still the mind. It requires to sit down, it requires to be patient with ourselves, and it requires to listen and requires to receive and just basically to surrender to the experience.
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Luis Gallardo:
We are so thrilled to welcome two of my favorite heroes to the happiness, wellbeing and self-development, self-love space. So Dorota Stanczyk, right?
Dorota Stanczyk:
Stanczyk.
Luis Gallardo:
Stanczyk, of course. And Mo Gawdat, welcome. It's very, very important that you are here because you have a lot to say about reconnection. How are you?
Mo Gawdat:
Wonderful.
Luis Gallardo:
I'm very good, thank you so much.
Mo Gawdat:
Thank you for having us. It's always, always a pleasure to be part of what you do, Luis. I think it's, you are really making a difference. Thanks for having us.
Dorota Stanczyk:
Yes, definitely.
Luis Gallardo:
Thank you so much. You're amazing. Well, as you know, the theme for this world happiness week, presented by the World Happiness Fest is reconnection. So we have identified that over the last, I would say no years, but actually decades, for some reason, humanity has been separating itself from the self, from communities, and from nature. And we want to address how do we solve that. So this is solving for happy, really. It's like, how do we solve for happy? With reconnection. And we frame the whole week around reconnecting with self, with the community, and with nature. So this is the first question. How do we do this?
Mo Gawdat:
Wonderful question. I think Dorota's book coming out is Recreate Yourself, so the connection with yourself. I will shut up completely and have you start, Dorota.
Dorota Stanczyk:
I think we agree on all of those topics, but I think the most important is to create time to reconnect. Why we stopped reconnecting to ourselves and others, it's because of all the distraction that is happening in nowadays society, in bringing technology and changing drastically the lifestyle of what it was still 50 years ago, to what it is today. And we don't, we become busier and busier, and our list and task of things to do become more filled by new things constantly coming. And we wait for this list, but very often to end in order to do something that we really love or in order to take time for ourselves, but this list never ends. And that's the reality. There will always be more and more things to do. So rather than waiting for this special moment to happen when we finally can sit down, we can go to the countryside, we can have a nice tea with a friend, we can meditate. It's to really redesign our routines in our daily life.
Dorota Stanczyk:
And I think if we don't schedule a time with ourselves first before we do anything else, we missed out on actually a very important opportunity to simply check in with how we are doing. We don't have this habit of checking in, Hey, how are you today? How are you feeling? What is the emotion that I am experiencing? It's very easy to say I'm unhappy, but is it really unhappiness, or is it frustration? Is dissatisfaction? Is it disappointment? We don't even... We can't even divide and really realize what is the exact feeling that we are experiencing, because we don't know how to name it, because the disconnection, the numbness that we have been actually cultivating within ourselves, put us sort of in the habit of simply moving forward, without even feeling what is there to be felt.
Dorota Stanczyk:
So I would say the first step to reconnect with either ourselves, or nature, or anyone, is to create a space for it, to create time for it. And that means that even if you have a conversation with someone, don't be somewhere else in your mind, because actually when you are somewhere else when your mind is preoccupied, you are not present. And you actually don't even remember that moment happening, because you wonder, right. So I believe that the first step to well-being in general, to really feeling happier, to really feeling reconnected is to cultivate and to learn to be present. And that's not as easy as it sounds because it requires to still the mind. It requires to sit down, it requires to be patient with ourselves, and it requires to listen and requires to receive and just basically to surrender to the experience.
Luis Gallardo:
Beautiful. So how do we become present?
Dorota Stanczyk:
How do we become present? Mo, do you want to?
Mo Gawdat:
I think our innate state is present. It's the distraction that takes us away from it. I normally would say that if you remove all of the distractions, what's left behind is fully present. And I think Dorota referred to this very clearly, it's all of those appointments that fill our calendar. It's all of those notifications that pop up on our phones. It's the entertainment industry. Oh my God, what we've done to ourselves as humanity. And, it's basically, we're jumping from one mode of distraction to another mode of distraction, to the third mode of distraction. And then eventually we have three minutes, just three minutes for ourselves. And what do we do? We take our phone out and we swipe on Instagram, right. And of course, we can talk about the spiritual element, and the spiritual practices, and all of the meditation, and all of the mindfulness work that we need to do, but I think that Dorota is spot on.
Mo Gawdat:
Before we even do all of that, you need a minute, you just need a minute. You need to stop being distracted because when you remove the distraction, suddenly you notice the room around you. I used to run this exercise in my first book, Solve for Happy, where I basically ask you to observe what's around you, just wherever you are. You're sitting in a room, in nature, in the bus, whatever. I just ask you to observe what's around you. What do you need to do to start that observation? Actually, nothing. You need to stop doing the other things. So to be able to observe the bus that is around you need to stop using your phone, you need to raise your head. You need to just simply be there, and see what's within your scope of vision, see what's within your scope of the hearing, of smell, of what's happening in your body.
Mo Gawdat:
Is your neck hurting? Are your feet hurting or do you have a headache? Are there thoughts running in your head that you need to be aware of? And it's just a question of, can I spend that time with me? And one of the things I love about Dorota's new book is the idea of self-love allowing you to actually spend time with yourself, to spend time in silence. Okay. Lots of spiritual practices talk about the idea of being on Vipassana retreat or just being in hermitage for a while, or in a monastery somewhere, simply to encourage that idea of, Hey, by the way, there is nothing to distract you here. There is really not much at all, not even the simple, simple luxuries of life.
Mo Gawdat:
You just have you, your contemplation, your spiritual practice. And in those places, you start to develop a higher level of mindfulness, higher level of presence, which in, let's call them the Olympic champions of the sport. But if you just want to be a normal engaged human, stop the distraction, and when you stop the distraction, you'll be okay, you'll be present.
Dorota Stanczyk:
However, for most the people, it is quite uncomfortable to just be with themself. And therefore that's the reason why we escape, why we use technology, why we use distraction, right. It's a vicious circle because we feel uncomfortable. We run out from those feelings and then we are too busy to even check-in, so the feelings are accumulating. We keep doing things on autopilot, and stopping, and really noticing at first, can be quite hard, because all those feelings will start to pop out and all those accumulated and suppressed, unexpressed basically, emotions will want to reveal themselves. And it's not an easy process. That's why people who do Vipassana, very often, for the first time, it's quite a life-changing experience because suddenly you open the box of Pandora and everything starts to just come out of you, that needs to be heard.
Dorota Stanczyk:
And I believe that, as Mo said, we are designed to be like a still ocean, and sometimes the waves will come and we are supposed to hear those waves. But if our cup is not empty at every even moment, if we do not practice every day to empty our cup, we are not even able to take in any more, what's new is coming. We will be living basically on past emotions accumulated in our body that hasn't been expressed. It's only when we will feel sort of empty the cup, is in that moment when we will be more objective of what is happening actually right now, what is our intuition telling us, what is our higher self telling us? What is the guidance, the inner guidance? We'll be able to hear it. Until then, it sort of will be we will be living through all of the past experiences that haven't been expressed and haven't been digested within our body and within our system.
Dorota Stanczyk:
So, I always teach people that the trick to actually trick yourself, to put your mind in a very present space, it's a novelty because we, when minds see something that is new, it is forced to be in the present moment. It's forced to go outside it and look at whatever is happening. So traveling, going to art galleries, admiring, sometimes spectacles or any art performances forces our minds to disconnect from the thoughts and automatic thoughts thinking, and actually really experience what is happening. And this is a very easy way to sort of train ourselves, even take a different path on the way to our work, do things differently every day to really treat our minds, to disconnect from that autopilot thinking.
Dorota Stanczyk:
But I would say the most important is to start in small steps. We don't have to go to the Vipassana retreat tomorrow. We need to literally dedicate half an hour, start to dedicate half an hour to then expand to maybe an hour of a silence time within ourselves, when we can either sit and drink a coffee, or take a walk, or journal, but anything that helps us to actually be in the present moment and feel whatever is there to be felt.
Mo Gawdat:
Yeah. I normally do something that I call a mini silent retreat. A mini silent retreat is something you can do every week, every other week. It can be an hour, it can be four hours, it can be seven hours, who cares. But the idea simply is, you go to bed on Saturday night and instead of setting your alarm to wake you up at 7:00 AM, set it to noon, okay. And then wake up anytime you want to wake up and just be silent, don't use technology. Don't even listen to music, don't talk to others. Don't engage that distraction machine until your alarm goes off until noon, okay. And you may wake up at eight. You may wake up at 10. It doesn't matter. It's could be at two hours or three, or it could be a four hours retreat, who cares. But the idea of the frequency of training your brain every week or every other week, that I can be without those devices, I can be without the noise, just for a couple of hours, and see the amazing magic that happens. It's just incredible, really.
Luis Gallardo:
Yeah. Just listening to you, I get connected to myself. I've been in silence, listening, and actually feel that connection. But at the same time, I was thinking what's going on in the world that some people don't get this at all? So we know what's happening in, let's say Ukraine, Russia, right now, we know what's going on in the Middle East. We know what's going on in small neighborhoods, all around the world with so much anger, with so much despair, and so much misery and people are really angry people. So I'm feeling that we have this amazing community of people who are calmer and calmer every day. And we have another community that every day is angrier and angrier. What's going on here? Can you explain a bit, and what do we do to reconnect in this case, our communities?
Mo Gawdat:
I think the first thing to do is to understand that if you were born in their circumstances, to their parents, have seen the world the way they have seen it, you would be angry too. The truth is that nobody wakes up in the morning and says, I want to feel bad today. Nobody wakes up in the morning and says, I want to hurt someone else, or I want to do something that destroys everything. People basically do, I believe, every one of us does the best we can. And I think part of our empathy and compassion is to understand that if someone had access to their happy side all the time, I'm sure they would trigger it. I'm sure they would enjoy it. The reason why some people are angry or unhappy is that they see a reason for that.
Mo Gawdat:
And you can't blame them. I mean, in a way, our world is full of injustice. There is so much injustice out there, that you have to be a rock, not to feel a little moved by all of this. And sometimes very moved by all of this. I think the question is, What good is any of this? Right? I hosted on my podcast, I hosted Arun Gandhi, who is the grandson of Gandhi, Mahatma Gandhi, and who wrote a book that's called The Gift of Anger. And I asked him, and I said, "What gift? What are you talking about?" And he said, "Anger is an energy, like every other energy. You can use it to punch someone in the face, and you can use it to stand up and be counted, and make a speech that changes the world. It's your choice."
Mo Gawdat:
And I think the difference between them comes from your calmness. So, if you can actually find someone who is going through that feeling of anger and acknowledging, acknowledging that they have a point that there is something about our world that perhaps deserves to be changed. And that may be to change it, we need to do something other than shout, and scream, and break, and curse, and divide. I think that's the pass forward. When you talk about reconnection, I think the biggest, biggest disconnection, one of the biggest disconnections we have is the connection to others, is the connection to the community is that, is that hyper-masculine world that we live in that defines me versus the world. It's that individualism that we've now lived in for so long, as such a big part of our Western approach, our capitalist approach, it's me, and I want to be successful, and I want to be better than my neighbor.
Mo Gawdat:
If you go to some of the Eastern cultures and teachings and spirituality, it's not about having a better house than my neighbor. It's about having a better neighborhood. Can we all together find a place where we are all enjoying a better life? So I think the first thing we need to do about all of the incredible anger, as you rightly said, out there in the world, is to accept it, is to say, it's understood. It's not crazy for some people to be angry, and then engage. One of the things I've asked, very strictly in my last few months of teachings, is people who have been on the path of enlightenment, of self-development, need to engage. I think one of the biggest challenges we have in our world is that we those who found a little bit of peace, are now sitting back and saying, let them swipe, let them like... I'm not part of this. I don't want to be part of that world.
Mo Gawdat:
And I think the truth is, without us engaging, at the risk of us actually getting a little stressed by all that's happening, without us engaging, the world has no hope. And I think the reality is that we should show up. We should say, I understand, I understand your anger. I understand that you won't change, but here's a better way for change, here's a better way for acknowledging the reality of others, the reality of our world, and maybe an engagement that reconnects us as a community. Because I think the question of community is quite interesting. Huh? Who is my community? Is my community my fellow Middle Easterners, or is my community all of my friends, or in my community all of humanity, or in my community all of the being? Because believe it or not, if anyone has the right to be angry here, it's all of those species that are being wiped off the planet because we're not part of their community anymore, we've separated.
Mo Gawdat:
I think we're at an interesting pivotal point where those of us, you and I, and Dorota, and the people we mix with would notice that there is an awakening, that there are so many who are willing to jump in and develop themselves and find a path to enlightenment, which I believe is true, but there is also a disaster of spirit everywhere, which interestingly is also true. I think my mathematical mind would tell me that those who are awakening are going very, very deep, but they're not large in numbers. I think we have an attention bias because we're surrounded by them. But then the majority is actually not awakening. And they're actually quite angry, as you rightly said, which could sound scary. The ones that are awakening are few, but they're going very deep. That takes you back to that whole concept of never underestimating the power of a small, but committed group of people to change the world. If anything, it's the only thing that ever happened, that a group of small dedicated people made the world better.
Luis Gallardo:
How powerful, and we connect self-love throughout to collective healing. How does it work? Because something that we've been exploring and we are doing some research now that we have the Chair in Zaragoza University on Contemplative sciences, is that collective trauma requires collective healing in order to work, but you cannot get to collective healing without self-love. And you've been investigating this and you're going to be publishing this in this new book. How does it work, collective healing and self-love?
Dorota Stanczyk:
So it's interesting in connection to actually anger in anything that there is because love and especially self-love is to really marry yourself for all the good and bad reasons, is to really love yourself unconditionally. What that means is to love yourself, even if you do feel anger, if you do feel disappointed, if you do feel shame. And by the end of the day, my anger feels exactly like your anger. My disappointment feels exactly like your disappointment. My shame feels exactly like your shame. So we relate to each other on a deep level of emotional understanding that everyone can relate to. So that is the first thing to remember, everyone, experiences those emotions and everyone, at some point in life will be triggered by those emotions. It will be triggered by situations. Some people of course live in situations that are much more challenging, but on a daily basis, we also simple situations, much easier situations can trigger the same emotions in a quite different spectrum, but they will still be present.
Dorota Stanczyk:
And it's this really this willingness to say, I feel angry right now, but I love myself anyway. I allow myself to feel this anger right now because the anger, as Mo beautifully said, it's an energy. It's just there to be felt. It indicates you something. And sometimes that indication means that maybe you are not on the right path that you are supposed to be. Maybe your boundaries are a little bit not respected by you. That's why you feel angry. Maybe you didn't do something that you really, really wanted to do or felt that you were supposed to do. And you ignored yourself. And that's why you feel angry. Anger is an indication of something, and it's there to be, first of all, listened to, right. What my body is telling me, is it right now, am I disrespecting myself in any given situation, or is my anger connecting to the past trauma that I haven't really dealt with from years ago, because it reminds me about the same trigger, right?
Dorota Stanczyk:
We never take things personally, unless they are personal, which means that we are never angry with someone or the situation. We are always angry with the trigger that is in us, that reminds us of something that hurt us in the past. And that's why we feel angry in the present moment. The emotional, whatever we experience here today, very rarely connects to actually the present moment. It very often connects to the past, because if we just sweep our memories and came to this earth and didn't remember anything, rarely anything will make us angry. Even if someone shouts at us, we might feel curious. We might feel like, Hmm, what are you doing? What is this kind of behavior? But we won't be triggered because we, now, have a definition around what does it mean. We sort of defining it in a certain way that makes us angry or not.
Dorota Stanczyk:
So it's interesting to look and always sort of be okay with whatever we are feeling and just say, why am I feeling it? What is the message behind this feeling? And I do believe that collective healing actually comes from being aligned. And that is the very first thing that anyone should ever focus on. And actually the only thing we should ever focus on because we if we are aligned within ourselves and our higher self, that would create in our surrounding, the exactly perfect situation that will serve our greatest good, and that will serve our others greatest good. However, if we act out of misalignment, and what means really out of fear, that will create in our life circumstances that will be misaligned. So it will reflect us where we are at. So the reality is just an extension of who we are. It only shows us what is really going on inside ourselves.
Dorota Stanczyk:
And so I think the healing and the collective healing is to first of all, always act out of love and stay within that higher alignment. So when we are aligned, we can align with other people and we then reunite in that powerful energy. So very good exercise is always whatever you take, any decision, whenever you decide to do anything, am I acting out of fear or am I acting out of love? It's that simple. And you will realize that most of your decision is acting out of fear. So stop yourself and do things differently. Do something courageous. Trust yourself. Trust is another massive point. We don't trust ourselves enough. We trust we are good enough. We don't trust we are doing good enough, because we are not most of the time, because we don't trust we can.
Dorota Stanczyk:
So we actually belittle ourselves on daily basis. And then we are frustrated with ourselves because it takes courage to go and act out of love because we don't know, sometimes it means jumping in the unknown and completely not having any idea what's going to actually happen. It means trusting that from that place of love, we will attract the right things for us.
Dorota Stanczyk:
And so not trying to control anything. And most of all, not trying to control our emotions, because if we try to control our reality, really, we try to control how we feel. And if you try to control how you feel, you are not free at all.
Luis Gallardo:
Free from controlling our emotions. I love it. How do we reconnect? We have two, three more minutes. How do we reconnect with the planet, knowing that the feeling is that we are going faster and faster every day, but we don't really know if we are going to go any further? So do you have any insights on that?
Mo Gawdat:
Yeah. I think the answer if you ask me, is to go to those who are connected with the planet and ask them. Again, I had the pleasure of hosting the My Octopus Teacher documentary maker, who basically, I asked him and I said... He used to dive in seven-degree water. I don't know if you know this, but the water that we normally feel is as cold as 33 degrees, just a few degrees less than your body temperature. And he used to dive in seven degree water, which is freezing. And I said, "How do you do this?" And he said, "Well, you have to unlearn what you've learned. We were made as humans to fit within that environment. We were made to live in an environment where there are ants and there are noises and there are beasts. And you just have to remember, you have to unlearn what you've learned, and then you will connect."
Mo Gawdat:
And look at our life, Luis. I mean, we don't even know that the steak we're eating came from an animal. It's now packed in plastic, put in the fridge in the supermarket. And if you ask a child and say, "Where do we get chicken from?" And they'll say, "From the supermarket." Where do we get meat from? From the supermarket. There is that disconnection of where things are coming from, where things are actually are. And I asked him, and I said, "So why did you make My Octopus teacher?" And he basically said, "I just wanted to remind everyone that we're not here visiting." He said, "We are of mother earth. We're not here just visiting. We're part of that ecosystem."
Mo Gawdat:
And I think it all goes back to reconnecting to the community. It all goes back to, can we actually look at the real reality of the community that we come from, and the community we come from is all of being. And I think that disconnection, like Dorota, was just teaching is very simple. Put yourself out there, seriously, just take yourself and put yourself out in nature once a week, whichever nature. And this was his advice. He said, "You go out there and you just do it. You go back to your roots and you sit out in nature, even if nature is the garden around the corner from your home. Or if you don't even have a garden around the corner, buy a plant and put it next to your desk. And just go sit in front of the plant once a week, and see if mother nature calls you back because the truth is you are from that plant. You are that plant."
Mo Gawdat:
And I think it's very hard to miss once you start to understand that for you to get the next steak, believe it or not, we need to all be alive. I don't understand how people can miss this. I mean, one of the very unusual things in my building is that they don't recycle. So there are no... This is really weird honestly because Dubai is very advanced in those things. And I promise you, I do not throw a single tiny piece of plastic. I will pack them. And sometimes in my busy life, I will have to keep them next to my door.
Mo Gawdat:
So you'll have two ugly garbage bags next to my door on the inside. But I will still not throw away one, because you know what? I can picture that one bird or one fish that will die of that plastic piece. And I can picture how I would feel if I was choking on a piece of plastic. And I would refuse to do that to another, because they're my community, they're my gang, just like I don't want to feel that way, I don't want my daughter to feel that way. I don't want you or your daughter, my dear friends to feel that way. I don't want anything else to feel that way. And I think we, humans have forgotten because we've created that barrier. To remove the barrier, throw yourself out there. Take an apple with you and go out in nature and try to forge for some mushrooms or be good at what you're doing, learn.
Mo Gawdat:
But try, try once a year, try to go out there and live in that space. And you'll be amazed, you'll be amazed how much. When I was recording that episode, I'll just say this in a minute. While I was recording that episode, I was in the Dominican Republic and I was going to the Dominican Republic with the objective of connecting with nature. And I rented a small Airbnb, a tiny little villa near the beach, but not on the beach. And basically, as I land there, I realized that they don't have air conditioning. And like the spoiled brat that I am, I start to say, how can that be? How can I live here if they don't have air conditioning? And the first day I was going to die, I was boiling inside because I'm not used to... what do I do in August, in the Dominican Republic without air conditioning?
Mo Gawdat:
And I asked the landlord, then he said, open the windows. Like what's so difficult about that? I basically would open everything. You can't open one window and expect it to cool down. That was what I was doing. You wake up in the morning and you open all the doors and all the windows, and now you're finally in nature and it feels amazing. You have a shade on top of your head and the wind blowing through and was better than any air conditioner I've ever used. And that's what we need to do, remove the barrier, connect, and remember that you are of nature. Every, and every bird, every tree is part of you. I think if we don't wake up, we will be part of them, because they will survive, and we will not.
Luis Gallardo:
How wise. So we are of nature. And Craig Foster, actually, he goes the award, the World Happiness award this year, on art.
Mo Gawdat:
He's an amazing human being in every possible way.
Luis Gallardo:
And he's teaching us so much. So if you haven't watched the documentary, we highly recommend that. Dorota, last word. Are we missing anything to reconnect? You say, okay, do this now, don't wait a minute. What do we do?
Dorota Stanczyk:
My gosh. I would say, just really be compassionate with wherever you are at, and whatever you feel at every given moment. And just trust it. Everything that you are feeling, and everywhere you are, it's in the exactly right place where you're supposed to be, and just stay open to the possibility of what that surrender might actually bring you. And I think that I had an actually big realization recently that, in this life, everything ends. In this planetary life, everything ends and our life is going to end and everything that we experience, nothing really lasts. And I think people are constantly grasping and searching for that security of things to last, and accumulating and achieving and going somewhere. But actually, we are not going anywhere this life and the beauty of the end, and the beauty of the death is that it gives meaning and it gives a sense to everything.
Dorota Stanczyk:
So if we could fall in love with the fact that everything ends and that's what makes this beautiful, that we can really cherish and appreciate every single moment for what it is. It changes a perspective of running towards someone to simply stopping and looking around and just realizing, wow, this is all I get, right here and right now, and it's exciting because you never know what's going to happen tomorrow. And that's the beauty of this life.
Dorota Stanczyk:
So let's keep that in mind, that we can't possibly know what's going to happen tomorrow. And it's actually the most beautiful thing about this life. So through that mentality and that reminder, I feel like it helps to just really stop, as Mo said, and to really reconnect with that essence of who we are, that is beyond this form, that is beyond this life.
Luis Gallardo:
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. It's always amazing learning from you and sharing. And I feel that for me, I feel friendship is something that will help me now, listening to you. And I'm so thrilled and happy that we are becoming more and more friends, as more we talk. So thank you so much for joining the World Happiness Week. Let's bring this message of hope, of friendship and compassion, and being of nature to the world. Thank you so much, Mo. Thank you so much, Dorota, for joining. Thank you.
Mo Gawdat:
Thank you so much for having us.